Author Topic: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )  (Read 4053 times)

hatshepsut

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 02:21:34 PM »
Hate to rain on your parade here, but from the standpoint of an accomplished scientist, Gerwyn's comments on the PLoS site make him look like a fool. Beyond the poor spelling and grammar, he is trying to defend the same errors in logic that he advanced on this forum in response to my statements. Too bad; his really doesn't help the cause of ME/CFS patients.

I am frankly very shocked over you now.

Is this how researcher behaves, when a patient group is trying to get him to do good science?

Gerwyn is doing all he can to help the cause of ME/CFS patients. I really can not see that you have done that.

Instead you have been trying to make us believe that we are destroying for 17 millions ME/CFS sick by criticizing you research metodes. Shame on you Dusty Miller, shame on you.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 02:51:26 PM by hatshepsut »

nackered

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 02:36:28 PM »
Hate to rain on your parade here, but from the standpoint of an accomplished scientist, Gerwyn's comments on the PLoS site make him look like a fool. Beyond the poor spelling and grammar, he is trying to defend the same errors in logic that he advanced on this forum in response to my statements. Too bad; his really doesn't help the cause of ME/CFS patients.

If we're going to be petty and pick on grammar, I think you mean:

He really doesn't help the cause of ME/CFS patients,

As opposed to:

His really doesn'I help the cause of ME/CFS patients.

Further more, Gerwyn's a sick man, you're a healthy employed scientist.

sarah

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 02:47:09 PM »
I don't know anything about the science, I'll be the first one to admit it. But I am a punctuation, spelling and grammar freak, and I really have to agree.

It takes very little time to have someone proofread and I would be glad to volunteer if I am here when it needs to be done.

It is hard because of our cognitive problems, I usually have to go over everything I write several times to catch my mistakes. But the fact remains that in any field, in any conversation, if you want to be taken seriously and be seen as professional, impeccable writing is a must.

Again, I cannot speak to the science, and I don't intend to, but the spelling/punctuation issue is one that isn't debatable if we want to be taken seriously. If Gerwyn has a good point, then it detracts from it greatly in the eyes of others reading it.

 I really think everyone needs to take a step back here in terms of reaction, I've been avoiding all these threads like the plague and I would imagine a lot of other members are as well. There's a lot of vitriol, and I know you guys are smart and capable of more civil communication. All the anger makes it not worth reading, especially with limited brain and energy. I won't be back to discuss this, but do extend my proofreading offer.

joy

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 02:56:13 PM »
Hate to rain on your parade here, but from the standpoint of an accomplished scientist, Gerwyn's comments on the PLoS site make him look like a fool. Beyond the poor spelling and grammar, he is trying to defend the same errors in logic that he advanced on this forum in response to my statements. Too bad; his really doesn't help the cause of ME/CFS patients.


Ridiculing a ME patient for bad spelling shows fundemental a lack of understanding of this disease - acquired dyslexia is one of the most common symptoms of this neuro immune disease. 

Besides Albert Einstein, Da Vinci and eddison were alegidly dyslexic

« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 03:01:59 PM by joyscobby »
The trick is to keep breathing.

Gerwyn

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 02:56:41 PM »
Hate to rain on your parade here, but from the standpoint of an accomplished scientist, Gerwyn's comments on the PLoS site make him look like a fool. Beyond the poor spelling and grammar, he is trying to defend the same errors in logic that he advanced on this forum in response to my statements. Too bad; his really doesn't help the cause of ME/CFS patients.


Dr Miller I thought you were no judge of a good scientific method .Now that you think the method used by Hohn et al was acceptable I know you would not be able to  critique a study if your life depended on it. You are hardly in a position to talk about the standards of an acomplished scientist because you are nowhere near to achieving that standard either in your study design,or perhaps even more sadly,your conduct

Gerwyn

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2011, 02:58:49 PM »
I don't know anything about the science, I'll be the first one to admit it. But I am a punctuation, spelling and grammar freak, and I really have to agree.

It takes very little time to have someone proofread and I would be glad to volunteer if I am here when it needs to be done.

It is hard because of our cognitive problems, I usually have to go over everything I write several times to catch my mistakes. But the fact remains that in any field, in any conversation, if you want to be taken seriously and be seen as professional, impeccable writing is a must.

Again, I cannot speak to the science, and I don't intend to, but the spelling/punctuation issue is one that isn't debatable if we want to be taken seriously. If Gerwyn has a good point, then it detracts from it greatly in the eyes of others reading it.

 I really think everyone needs to take a step back here in terms of reaction, I've been avoiding all these threads like the plague and I would imagine a lot of other members are as well. There's a lot of vitriol, and I know you guys are smart and capable of more civil communication. All the anger makes it not worth reading, especially with limited brain and energy. I won't be back to discuss this, but do extend my proofreading offer.

It was good enough for the editor of Plos one to publish it as an original article clearly he understood the science well enough

Tango

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2011, 02:59:23 PM »
I can tell that it has distracted you Sarah.

The concern people have is quiet simple.

1) Miller will not use a positive clinical sample to check his test against, only a clone.  That will considerably narrow those he can identify as positive, if they are.

2) Miller is going to use a mouse contamination test called an IAP assay, that may be producing false positives, which even he is unsure of. 

So the final study is likely to be negative for XMRV and could show up as contamination.  And he want's to use WPI positives.  You can see what that will mean for this research.
"I suspect there have been a number of conspiracies that never were described or leaked out. But I suspect none of the magnitude and sweep of Watergate." Woodward

"I would favor any name that does not impose (or give the appearance of imposing) taxonomic preconceptions on the nomenclature." Coffin

clive powney

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2011, 02:59:38 PM »
Dr Miller,
You really are a SAD BA£$%D. If all you can do is try and stop what seems at worst scientific work that has got the world to sit up and do something about a disease that has blighted many millions of individuals lives - then shut the f$£k up! You then go and pick up a few grammatical errors from someones posting (who is chronically ill) and tease them about it - were you bullied at school? I would have liked to have been that bully - I could have shut you up permanently.

jace

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2011, 03:02:48 PM »
BTW, My big brother is a doctor of Physics, and his spelling and grammar are atrocious too.  Not to mention my dad, a medical doctor, with degrees on the side, who's writing is illegible unless you've had a lifetime learning to decipher.

Shame on you, Dr Miller.  I really cannot believe your last post. Not only were you cruel to a sick person, you also only gave us opinion, with nothing to back it up.

Why not do a proper analysis of G's work, with proper quotes and with references (and we will read the references, and if they are inappropriate, we will point it out) so that we can check your point of view. 
IinME  All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. MEactionUK

Tango

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2011, 03:03:35 PM »
Hate to rain on your parade here, but from the standpoint of an accomplished scientist, Gerwyn's comments on the PLoS site make him look like a fool. Beyond the poor spelling and grammar, he is trying to defend the same errors in logic that he advanced on this forum in response to my statements. Too bad; his really doesn't help the cause of ME/CFS patients.

The same issue have been raised by Ruscetti and Mikovits.  Are you saying that they are fools too? 
"I suspect there have been a number of conspiracies that never were described or leaked out. But I suspect none of the magnitude and sweep of Watergate." Woodward

"I would favor any name that does not impose (or give the appearance of imposing) taxonomic preconceptions on the nomenclature." Coffin

cath

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2011, 03:05:44 PM »
Ridiculing a ME patient for bad spelling shows fundemental a lack of understanding of this disease - acquired dyslexia is one of the most common symptoms of this neuro immune disease.


Yes Joy. Sadly but true

sarah

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2011, 03:06:45 PM »
It was good enough for the editor of Plos one to publish it as an original article clearly he understood the science well enough

All I'm saying is if you see me online when you're about to send something in, send me a PM and I will proofread, I think AWOL has volunteered to do the same in another thread somewhere.

Again, I'm not speaking about the science because I don't understand most of it. I do get grammar, so I'm trying to help.


Gerwyn

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2011, 03:09:44 PM »
I can tell that it has distracted you Sarah.

The concern people have is quiet simple.

1) Miller will not use a positive clinical sample to check his test against, only a clone.  That will considerably narrow those he can identify as positive, if they are.

2) Miller is going to use a mouse contamination test called an IAP assay, that may be producing false positives, which even he is unsure of. 

So the final study is likely to be negative for XMRV and could show up as contamination.  And he want's to use WPI positives.  You can see what that will mean for this research.



I wonder if Dr Miller would care to point to the errors in that logic!

flex

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2011, 04:48:14 PM »
Dr Miller where is your rebuttal of the Retrovirology papers published?  For someone who claims on this board not to take the same position as John Coffin I am not aware of any critique, by yourself, of their corrupt science and fraudulent nonsense which is consistent with the abuse ME patients have dealt with over 40 years.


Kenny de Melieur called the Retrovirology papers "a crime against humanity." I guess he is another "fool" in your eyes and words along with Judy Mikovits and Ruscetti and Gerwyn?

Have you not critiqued the Retrovirology papers because you are busy designing a study to "prove" them right.

Or is it just that you prefer the rebuttals to come from sick and dieing patients so that you can sit back and ridicule them on their grammar?

And you have come here asking to test our precious blood, shocking just shocking!!!

You are trying to get your study through an ethics committee currently are you sure with this kind of behaviour that you would personally be approved by an ethics committee?

I think your position is becoming abundantly clearer by the minute.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 08:50:07 PM by flex »
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adustymiller

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Re: One of our rebuttal letters has been published!!! (Hohn et al )
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2011, 07:09:30 PM »
Dusty, you can have some of my blood, if you'll let me inject it into you, subcutaneously.  You may tell, your posts are now making me cross (in a non-involved way)

I realized that there would be a strong response to my post about Gerwyn's comments on the Hohn et al. paper, but this goes over the top.

I'll only point out that I and several other lab members (including Andy, the graduate student who has posted on this forum before) work with XMRV almost every day. We run the risk of becomming infected in order to better understand this virus and possible treatments for infection.

So, please don't expect further posts from me. I apologize to those who have remained open minded and willing to discuss the important issues in XMRV research, but this forum has gotten way too toxic for me.