Author Topic: Marguerite Ross refused to confirm tests used in ViP Dx are Lombardi et al.  (Read 1411 times)

Tango

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So , is it Lombardi/WPI who has sold a test that wasn't validated? Did he do this knowingly?
I wouldv thought Judy knew this and would have said something b4 now.

Well atleast she has said it now. But it is only form JDJ that we have this information. *If* this is the case, Judy must be feeling bad for all of us.

It really is very confusing. I can see our NZ group taking what the CFIDs ASSn / WPI say as gospel.  We really need to have all sides write their facts and only facts, and  have it on their websites for all to read.

This is not about the WPI lab, but ViPDx, which Lombardi runs.  They won't answer questions about those assays being used there.
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flex

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As I have stated before, the WPI research lab was unable to reproduce the results from the VIP Dx lab while working on the BWG Study.  The reason VIP Dx  cannot continue to use the same test, no matter what they call it, is because WPI was unable to validate the VIP Dx test.
 
   

Heres what I dont understand then. If WPI lab didnt agree with VIP reporting before the BWG results why werent the WPI research lab results put forward to the BWG as the WPI results instead of VIPs.


But then isnt it obvious that WPI research lab wouldnt agree with VIP results for the BWG as VIP would be following the BWG protocol which would always be a  failure because of the the methods imposed by the BWG.


Why would Judy jeopordize her 2009 paper by allowing her findings to be put forward if she couldnt use those exact methods to report to the BWG.

WPI would surely use their own assays on any samples tested including ones the VIP where reporting for the BWG to see if they agreed with the VIP results that would be put forward to the BWG in the name of the WPI and basically Judy.

How could the WPI research lab possibly reproduce VIP results if they used Lombadi et al  2009 methods and not BWG quick assay for current blood supply methods..... No Trizol.  Culture times dropped dramatically for serology and culture.

As disasterous as the last week has been and the firing of Judy is a catastrophic blow to all of us we have to remember one thing.

The BWG was destined to be a failure and the design would not have proved Lombardi 2009 paper reagrdless of who did the blood work for the WPI to report to the BWG.

Currently the saving grace is that the BWG has not disproved the Science paper as the results seem to have been reported by VIP which in some senses was a lamb to the slaughter as Judy would have been if she had reported to the BWG.

There may well be major issues with the last two years commercial testing but until we know the facts and all the facts consider a third scenario, that being the  BWG was a governemnt plan to cause mayhem within the WPI, divide and rule and pick away at relationships that may well have been far from perfect.

It was always the intention of the powers that be to take the WPI down, didnt we always know that?

A commercial lab, supposedly, allowing any individual  to identify themselves as possilbly having a HGRV was always going to have a government missile pointing directly at it.

Its what happens from here that we really need to worry about.

None of us know whats going to happen next, although we may fear the worst.

Isnt it amazing that the fraud and "relabling slides"  accusations started immediately after it seems the WPI research lab didn't report the BWG, infact it was a commercial lab not connected to Judy.

There  is an obvious push for retraction of Lombardi et al 2009  that would have been a piece of cake if WPI research lab and not VIP had reported the BWG results.

If WPI research lab had reported to the BWG it would still have been a negative result because of the study design and VIP and both WPI would have been "invalidated" by the government.

That would almost definately have resulted in a Lombardi 2009 retraction and there would have been 3 down out of three.

Judy one,   VIP two,  and Lombardi 2009 et al three.

Right now two are still standing, Judy and Lombardi 2009 and the other is innocent until proven guilty.

Trial by media has always been a very fraught issue, trial by forum may present equally fraught process if we report a series of second hand quotes and speculations.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 08:47:06 PM by flex »
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Wildaisy

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Quote
So , is it Lombardi/WPI who has sold a test that wasn't validated? Did he do this knowingly?
I wouldv thought Judy knew this and would have said something b4 now.

Well at least she has said it now. But it is only form JDJ that we have this information. *If* this is the case, Judy must be feeling bad for all of us.


The VIP Dx lab was run by Vincent Lombardi and owned by Harvey and Annette Whittemore.  They made all decisions as to VIP Dx.  Dr. Judy Mikovits was never part of VIP Dx and never participated in decisions about VIP Dx.  It is VIP Dx and those who were part of it who are responsible for the sale of an unvalidated XMRV/HGRV test.  Dr. Judy Mikovits was never part of VIP Dx.

Because she was not part of VIP Dx, Dr. Mikovits did not know the XMRV/HGRV tests being sold by VIP Dx were not working until the BWG study revealed the problems with the tests.  It is my opinion that Annette Whittemore fired Judy Mikovits because Mikovits refused to go along with the sale of the unvalidated test.

"Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. ... If you're right and you know it, speak your mind.  Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth."  ~ Ghandi

Tango

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The BWG would have stopped those tests from working anyway.  Two separate issues.
"I suspect there have been a number of conspiracies that never were described or leaked out. But I suspect none of the magnitude and sweep of Watergate." Woodward

"I would favor any name that does not impose (or give the appearance of imposing) taxonomic preconceptions on the nomenclature." Coffin

Robyn

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Here is the response someone named GC (dated October 8, 2011 2:06 PM) received from Marguerite Ross regarding their VIP test:

http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/2011/10/what-next-by-kita-rael.html#comments

Quote
It seems that WPI wants no accountability for testing done at VIP-DX. Annette Whittemore asked that questions regarding testing done at VIP-DX be directed to Marguerite Ross. Marguerite responded to my request for a statement re validity of the VIP-DX testing from WIP or the new lab UNEVX by stating (in part), "Unevx and WPI will not issue that statement as they did not run the test."

VIP-DX is closing. Everyone can make of this what they will.


 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 10:39:21 PM by Robyn »
I am a Fibromyagia/ME patient here and all my posts are my opinion and experiences.

“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

Robyn

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Look what I found!

According to this address block it appears that Marguerite Ross was the Director of Marketing & Relations at VIP:

Marguerite Ross, Director
Marketing & Client Relations
VIP Dx
5625 Fox Ave #369
Reno, NV 89506
775-351-1890
775-682-8517 Fax

VIP Dx is committed to excellence in quality, service and accuracy and no result will be reported before it has passed our quality assurance guidelines. 

(there must be a record of those quality assurance guidelines somewhere I would think). 

And exactly why did Marguerite state this when she was the Marketing Research Director for VIP?
Quote
Marguerite responded to my request for a statement re validity of the VIP-DX testing from WIP or the new lab UNEVX by stating (in part), "Unevx and WPI will not issue that statement as they did not run the test."

« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 10:30:01 PM by Robyn »
I am a Fibromyagia/ME patient here and all my posts are my opinion and experiences.

“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

Robyn

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WPI's answer regarding VIP tests in bold below.  Now why can't Marguerite answer? She is afterall the Client Relations Director for both business entities.  Bye the way if you dial 775-351-1890 which is the phone number for VIPdx guess who answers the phone?  UNEVX  This response does not hold up.  Seems to me they are trying to avoid answering patient questions.

From WPI facebook:
Whittemore Peterson Institute info@vipdx.com is the only one that can answer questions about Vipdx tests.

Vipdx and Unevx are not the same
lab.

(then why is UNEVX answering VIP's phone line 775-351-1890 try it and see for yourself, hurry though before it get's changed)

This is showing who the Director is for both companies: (she's also a bit lacking in her skills in client relations department I might add)

Marguerite Ross, Director
Marketing & Client Relations
VIP Dx

Marguerite Ross, Director
Marketing & Client Relations
UNEVX Clinical Laboratory

« Last Edit: October 09, 2011, 08:16:32 PM by Robyn »
I am a Fibromyagia/ME patient here and all my posts are my opinion and experiences.

“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

Stuart

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Clearly they are trying to disassociate from VIP Dx as if they had nothing to do with it and there are no commonalities.


But you are correct, Lombardi was director, and Marguerite was as listed.  They are pretending you have to 'talk' to VIP Dx, when there 'is no more' VIP Dx according to them as well!  ::)
“The treatment of today’s ME/CFS-patients is comparable to that of lobotomy patients decades ago” “When the full history of ME/CFS is written one day, we will all be ashamed of ourselves”

Prof. Dr. Ola Didrik Saugstad, Professor of Pediatrics, WHO Advisor, Norway

Wildaisy

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Let us not forget that VIP Dx laboratory was owned by Harvey and Annette Whittemore.  They are obviously responsible for what VIP Dx did and did not do.
"Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth, for being correct, for being you. ... If you're right and you know it, speak your mind.  Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is still the truth."  ~ Ghandi

Robyn

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Clearly they are trying to disassociate from VIP Dx as if they had nothing to do with it and there are no commonalities.


But you are correct, Lombardi was director, and Marguerite was as listed.  They are pretending you have to 'talk' to VIP Dx, when there 'is no more' VIP Dx according to them as well!  ::)

Yes but pay no attention to this man behind the curtain, because he has moved and has not been smart enough to have someone else beside UNEVX answer the phone for his previous business venture.  Ring ring ring.  Hello am I calling VIP dx as that is the number listed on the website. Answer - you've reached UNEVX but we have no information regarding the testing done at VIPdx. Please give them a call. :-[ (what? that was who I just called). Oh and their Customer relations contact Marguerite, who is the Director at both locations has no information for you either. Now how is that for customer relations?  Not too good in my book but what we expect after what we've seen of the PR and advocacy issues done at WPI.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 01:11:36 AM by Robyn »
I am a Fibromyagia/ME patient here and all my posts are my opinion and experiences.

“The truth, of course, is that a billion falsehoods told a billion times by a billion people are still false.”

Katrina

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FWIW, if it has any bearing on this topic, I remember from the earliest days that

A) The exact testing  done at WPI for the Science article was not possible for the Public because it was *too expensive*. I felt I was learning something  re: new testing in Science discoveries, but it was only partially "learning", because I did not know exactly how testing was developed or done by Lombardi et al for the Science article, or how a more affordable method could be designed to offer to patients/public.
{perhaps this is about the trizoral? that V is talking about, or the multiple tests that WD is talking about, or...any number of things }

I did already know that 1st tests to the Public, after a discovery are not the final determining tests...that they must be incrementally perfected. I saw this, in the AIDS tests (false positives or negatives, later a different 2nd testing required to confirm, finally one accurate test, etc. And, they're still improving it?)

http://www.hivaidscare.com/hivtesting.php?acode=na

Any kind of diagnostic technology undergoes the same processes...when is the test offered to Public? and that it will initially be experimental, expensive, etc. To be improved upon, as time goes on, or discarded.

2) I remember a clamoring among patients for access to testing, immediately. I think there is a lot of history, precedent and debate on weighing the issue of how soon to offer testing, or how long to wait for it to be perfected. Ethical, humanitarian, economic, and political debates.

{side note " It is still noted that possible dangers of the Polio vaccine may have been due to the Public's and Political demand for quick resolution to the terrifying epidemic sweeping the land, and the possibly too hasty release of the said vaccine(s). }

3) "Validated" test. I remember, after Judy's 1st Presentation, asking what does that mean ? And immediately discerning that the answer was far more complicated than I would wish, or could hope to explain.
So, the best I could do was simply pass on that the XMRV test about to be offered to patients ("within the week") was *validated*.

http://www.oie.int/fileadmin/Home/eng/Health_standards/tahm/1.1.04_VALID.pdf

Quote
The ever-changing repertoire of new and unique diagnostic reagents coupled with many novel
assay platforms and protocols has precipitated discussions about how to properly validate these
assays


4) I remember, and immediately passed on that Judy said the test availability to the Public was requiring negotiations with multiple laboratories, with various criteria required for going forward...affordability and Govt and Insurance approval, for examples of priorities. This conversation included the awareness of Judy and the WPI of the economic issues for patients, and the WPI's committment to full test-accessability being a top priority.

{I later imagined this being a part of the Whittemores' trip to Washington DC }

Again, I was seeing what  a very complex, multi-pronged endeavor this is and would be. Getting a newly discovered pathogen tested
in ME patients/the general public/the world.

personal note:
I began to really comprehend and bring up for discussion the issues of the Infrastructure  for testing and treatment that our global ME community is needing and demanding. I suggested, then kind of pleaded that we use our "waiting" time to familiarize ourselves with these necessary operational challenges and the context of others that may be preparing for them.

samples of this larger, critical  issue:

http://ftguonline.org/ftgu-232/index.php/ftgu/article/view/1951/3898

{Might as well view it from a 3rd world perspective, since this is where ME and the US Health Care System in general has ended up  ::)

http://www.cdc.gov/ostlts/foafaq.html

C4. What is the definition of "core public health infrastructure"?

“Core public health infrastructure” includes continuous performance measurement and quality improvement capacity to assure that the systems supporting public health services and programs are robust and efficient; workforce capacity and competency; laboratory systems; health information and systems, and health information analysis for decision making; communications; legal authorities; financing; other relevant components of organizational capacity; and other related activities.

C5. What are the "key areas" for infrastructure investments?
The "key areas" for infrastructure investments needed to create a more efficient and effective public health service delivery system include improvements in the following:

Health Promotion and Disease Prevention
Public Health Policy and Public Health Law
Health IT and Communications Infrastructure
Workforce and Systems Development
Detailed information about each of the "key areas" can be found in the FOA.

5) I am told that XMRV blood test packages were clearly marked as experimental or for research purposes only

6) A consequence of the above complexities, and of words like investigation, lawsuits and fraud flying around ....generally sending anyone to Legal Counsel --- just might be only tightly controlled
information and answers....from all parties involved. (Perhaps instructed by Legal Counsel )

This would drive me batty, and information clearly has to get out in timely fashion.. But I can hardly see anything else, but careful soul-searching and intense negotiations privately...among numerous parties...giving limited tidbits meanwhile.

Robyn, I was laughing...traumatised hysterical laughing, no doubt...at your summarizing the experience of trying to get answers.  You've just described what living in this Corporate-run-mentality world is for most people...
just trying to survive...regarding any critical issue that their life depends on. Non answers from non people. Yet, you could have sworn you were speaking to an actual person.

god, my brain just blew out...bye for now
1985

Tango

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Trizol has to be added before the samples are sent to the labs.  So this problem is unique to the BWG.
"I suspect there have been a number of conspiracies that never were described or leaked out. But I suspect none of the magnitude and sweep of Watergate." Woodward

"I would favor any name that does not impose (or give the appearance of imposing) taxonomic preconceptions on the nomenclature." Coffin

Raggedy Ann

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Here is the response someone named GC (dated October 8, 2011 2:06 PM) received from Marguerite Ross regarding their VIP test:

http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/2011/10/what-next-by-kita-rael.html#comments


Just so ppl will know... I am GC in the quote from Dr Jamie's Blog.