Author Topic: ME and Uniquely Immunoreactive to Antibodies to Human Endogenous Retroviral Prot  (Read 5521 times)

Robyn

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This makes me think too of the argument over cells that Lombardi wanted for a study back then and that Judy objected. Annette claimed she was fired for insubordination by refusing to turn over the cells. The interview with Lombardi states they started the study 17 months ago.

Judy was the PI for the grant putting her in charge of "all" things related to it.  That is how these grants work. Lombardi would have had no authority if the cells had to do with the NIH grant. What would he have been doing in the research lab when he was the Clinical Director at VIP dx? How were the cells paid for?  Maybe we'll find that info where the VIPdx data is.

They would have had 3 months to decide where the grant would go and that would put it near end of December or early January.  I believe it was around January.  And Lombardi had a letter come out in May kicking out the previous research subjects.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 12:03:12 AM by Robyn »

Robyn

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All I can say is if VIPdx comes up with a new test for activated HERVS, don't repeat the past. Run, Forest, run.

And yes "Run Forest Run"  Looks like this time they want to take a bite out of your deodenum.  Pretty risky stuff. Hey maybe they can be the test dummy's this time. Test their crew first as controls and start with the CEO. And don't forget who said to vote for the CAA!

Robyn

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I found this too on the forum: http://www.mecfsforums.com/index.php/topic,12983.msg140351.html#msg140351

   
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http://www.mecfsforums.com/index.php/topic,11986.msg135299.html#msg135299

Jones said Mikovits’ relationship with the Whittemores deteriorated after she allegedly discovered a list of potentially criminal acts. The institute had been using federal grant money to pay a lab director, Vincent Lombardi, even though he did not work at the institute full time, Jones said.

Jones also said Mikovits raised concerns about the alleged misuse of cells allocated for nonprofit research “to harvest supplies for the institute’s for-profit clinic.” Mikovits claimed the institute covered up the alleged misappropriation for two years.

Mikovits also confronted institute officials for allegedly selling blood tests through the institute’s clinic even after the tests had been invalidated, “thereby committing Medi-Care fraud,” Jones said.

And here is one of  Annette reasonings for the the firing.  NIH grants have very specific rules and as a PI it is their responsibility to inforce them regardless. http://www.mecfsforums.com/index.php/topic,9800.0.html
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 12:20:20 AM by Robyn »

Robyn

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Looks like Cort Johnson has found a new home on wpi facebook. He's been a frequent poster there: Hey here's a paper he should check out: ScienceShot: Snakes Lie to Save Their Skin   Seriously:  http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/11/scienceshot-snakes-lie-to-save.html

Recent Posts by Others on Whittemore Peterson Institute

    Cort Johnson
     Pathogens, Parasites and Panda's: the Hornig Talk on ME/CFS Dr. Klimas was ecstatic at her NSU conference to have as rigorous a researcher at Dr. Mady Hornig involved in our field.
    about an hour ago

    Cort Johnson
     The PACE trials $8,000,000 cost made it easily the most expensive ME/CFS study ever and ensured that a successful outcome would set UK treatment priorities on a CBT/GET course for the forseeable future. The stakes were high.
    21 hours ago
 
    Cort Johnson
     In 2010 Kelvin Lord dragged himself into Dr. Lapp's office in a last-ditch effort to recover his failing health. A year of Ampligen infusions and 30 plus often hilarious and poignant blogs later he signed off with a blog in Jan, 2011, "Learning to Fly Again"

Robyn

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So it seems Lombardi is up to answering some more questions. Although I highly doubt it's him. Interview with Vincent Lombardi, Ph.D- Part 2http://wingsofhopefornid.blogspot.com/

Now maybe he'll answer the questions about the VIPdx testing data and why patients weren't refunded for those bogus tests.  And while he's at it maybe he can explain why he left off the fact he worked there on the 2011 Annual report when he clearly wrote he was the clinical Lab Director in 2011.  Remember the VIP announcement singed by Vincent Lombardi the Clinical Director, right before they changed the website.  Oh and also right before they took the XMRV test off the website in 2011 too. 

If you go right to the link you will see that his statement dated October 14, 2011 (it's also posted on various blogs and forums in October 2011) was pulled off from the VIPdx website showing him as the Clinical Director there. So why was it left off his work bio on the annual plan for 2011? http://niceguidelines.blogspot.com/2011/10/statement-by-vincent-lombardi.htmlt-lombardi.html[/url]
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 02:59:29 AM by Robyn »

Robyn

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Now Cort is promoting WPI:  http://www.cortjohnson.org/blog/2013/03/08/small-study-suggests-retroviral-activationautoimmunity-possibly-linked-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-dr-lombardi-of-wpi-talks/

And speaking of puppets,

Doubtful Lombardi even knows basic Virology let alone retroviruses or Hervs!  What a joke, he was a broker.  If you look very closely at Nevada News you can see Annette's hand holding up her dummy and working the strings.

Hey she could have a puppet show. She could put them both in her lap and work them both at the same time. Cort the Fake patient advocate sitting on one knee and Lombardi the non-virologist on the other.  She could have Cort ask Lombardi where he put all the VIPdx data and what all that testing money for Lombardi's version of the bogus test went for. 

Then Lombardi could respond with Duh I don't know, ask Annette. I think it may have had something to do with fuel of some sort. Or maybe it was about cells or something. Geez I haven't a clue.

And now it's all fitting into place. Let's see Cort and his partners the CAA. Now we know why we were asked to vote for the CAA.   They have after all been profitting off us for 25 years now. I guess research orgs need to stick together, while patients lie tortured in their beds and are asked to give away what little money they have.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 06:13:21 PM by Robyn »

Cytokine

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Could it be a kind of zoonosis where pets like cats and dogs are the vector of retroviruses they got through animal vaccines, which might themselves have been infected from whatever other animal cells used for manufacture? (That kind of zoonosis could be widespread, and not so dependent on climate/geography, only on where infected lots are shipped.)

Or a zoonosis from ticks and mosquitoes? In that case I would think there should be strong geographic and climatic variations in incidence (unless it is easily transmitted people to people, which doesn't seem to be the case, at least not to a large extent)...

Or something through food, e.g. through cow's milk, or meat, but then it should survive pasteurization and cooking, and what does except prions?

Just brainstorming...

We could do with a world map of ME infections and population totals. Put that's difficult with such patchy, varied and unreliable diagnosis. The need for a biomarker again.

I'd also be curious about different treatment regimes that are available in different countries, and how it affects patient populations and severity. e.g. The fact that US sufferers are allowed to take many more medicines for treatment, where as here in the UK, we're pretty much allowed nothing.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Cytokine

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That's some good investigative journalism there, Robyn. I have never been able to put together why the government allowed WPI to have that grant. I do have some ideas I won't mention. What I noticed was:

1) Judy was arrested and put in jail by the Whittemores and their judge buddy over intellectual property that did not exist.
2) The Whittemores were indicted for crimes and lying to the FBI, yet the WPI was given the NIH grant.
3) Judy was released from jail at the hand of Dr. Lipkin and went on to do a study that showed xmrv to be contamination (from Silverman).
4)The Science study and Alter and Lo study were removed from print, yet other studies were allowed to remain.
5) All real research into the causative agent of ME has been shut down and the patients have been demoralized once again.

Now, what are the chances of all these happening at one time by mere chance? How could you not see orchestration and de-discovery from the start to the end.

My view is the Whittemores thought they had intellectual property that they thought might still be valuable i.e. the XMRV patients. I think they also simply acted as arrogant elites that wanted to destroy an employee that they felt had hadn't been an obedient little person, crossed them and needed to be taught a lesson. Not convinced it was a government ordered destruction of Judy's reputation.

The government grant award, I'd admit, is a mystery, considering it the sh*tstorm that blew up round the Whittemores. Perhaps they still had a few friends still in government and pulled some strings. Or perhaps these decisions, and changing them once the decision has been all but made, is a bit like trying to turn round an oil tanker. Perhaps it was still awarded through inertia.

In the Discovery mag article, Judy still thinks a retrovirus is involved. Would she be allowed to say that if she's obeying orders in return for debilitating her reputation? I don't think so. She's enthusiastically endorsed the Lipkin study results, unequivocally. She doesn't seem under any duress. Unless people think she's suffering some sort of Stockholm Syndrome under Lipkin's spell.

I've said it before, and although I've occasionally had my doubts, my gut feeling is Lipkin's a good guy, honest scientist and truth seeker. I think he stuck his neck out to help Judy when he didn't really have to, which was honourable of him. The Whittemores had made her name mud, so anything she said would have just been ignored. They didn't have to sign her up to any conspiracy, IMO. So yeah, Lipkin does some work for the US government, but that doesn't mean they own him. One of his big concerns seems to be stopping a global pandemic of something like SARS, so he's kind of going to need to be involved with government for that sort of thing.

I think the cohort of the study stuck to pretty strict criteria and is good, and the blood samples should turn out to a valuable resource. I like them to be partly used to try and identify a reliable biomarker.

I don't think there's a massive conspiracy by the governments of the world to keep us sick. It just doesn't make sense to me. Governments like you to be a model citizen, working your 9 to 5 and paying them lots of nice tax money. If there is a massive conspiracy, it really must be to cover something up something massive and horrendous, if it involves keeping millions from living normal lives and doing that. It's possible, but I'm not convinced. But it certainly makes for more seductive theory than the fact that we might have immune systems that have genetic weaknesses and we're the victims of a series of events that have sent them haywire, or a natural virus/viruses that's exploiting those weaknesses.

In my view, when it comes to the world's governments, we're more likely we're the victims of prejudice, inaction and incompetence and some sociopaths in government, medicine and insurance making personal profit from keeping us sick. e.g. Reeves might well have been just a prejudiced man who was promoted above his talents, or perhaps making some side cash out of keeping things as they were.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Robyn

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I think the cohort of the study stuck to pretty strict criteria and is good, and the blood samples should turn out to a valuable resource. I like them to be partly used to try and identify a reliable biomarker.

Those blood samples are being tossed into the garbage. Well at least the grant samples are.  Not sure what ever became of the original Science paper samples. Would suspect they were contaminated rendering them useless now.

Government grants when given to an institution would normally stay with the institution unless the original PI had another facility to go to.  I think we all know how that unfolded.  If government grants are given to a University they would automatiaclly go with the PI if they were to leave. The rules say it has to be done within 3 months so they may have had no other choice.

There was no intellectual property.  XMRV doesn't exist as a human infection.  Question is When exactly did Silverman and Lombardi know? We know Silverman knew in summer 2011 and Lombardi was his collaborator.  Yet VIP dx testing continued which was owned by the Whittemores and ran by Lombardi as the lab Director.  Although he left that fact off the annual report of 2011.  But he did make his statement to that fact in Oct. 14 2011. See it's right here: http://niceguidelines.blogspot.com/2011/10/statement-by-vincent-lombardi.html

But Lombardi conveniently left off his VIP dx affiliation from his bio here: http://www.wpinstitute.org/news/docs/WPIAnnRpt2011.pdf

See it's missing from here for after 2007 but he ws cleary still the Lab Director as you can see in the link above on October 14, 2011.  What's he hiding?:

PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCE
2011 – Present Research Director • Whittemore Peterson Institute
2006 – Present Assistant Clinical Professor of Microbiology & Immunology AND Assistant Clinical Professor of
Pathology • University of Nevada, Reno
2007 – 2010 Postdoctoral Fellow – Research Focus: Cytokine and Chemokine Response in Chronic Fatigue
Syndrome • Whittemore Peterson Institute
2004 – 2007 Director of Operations/Lead Scientist for Product Development • Redlabs, Reno, Nevada
2001 – 2005 Graduate Student/Doctoral Candidate • University of Nevada, Reno
1999 – 2000 Graduate Student/Doctoral Candidate • Temple University

 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 07:08:06 PM by Robyn »

Cytokine

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Those blood samples are being tossed into the garbage. Well at least the grant samples are.  Not sure what ever became of the original Science paper samples. Would suspect they were contaminated rendering them useless now.

Government grants when given to an institution would normally stay with the institution unless the original PI had another facility to go to.  I think we all know how that unfolded.  If government grants are given to a University they would automatiaclly go with the PI if they were to leave. The rules say it has to be done within 3 months so they may have had no other choice.

There was no intellectual property.  XMRV doesn't exist as a human infection.  Question is When exactly did Silverman and Lombardi know? We know Silverman knew in summer 2011 and Lombardi was his collaborator.  Yet VIP dx testing continued which was owned by the Whittemores and ran by Lombardi as the lab Director.  Although he left that fact off the annual report of 2011.  But he did make his statement to that fact in Oct. 14 2011. See it's right here: http://niceguidelines.blogspot.com/2011/10/statement-by-vincent-lombardi.html

Hasn't there been a blood bank stored of the cohort that can be used for further research? I'm sure Lipkin mentions it in the press conference.

On the other point, I don't think the WPI were certain XMRV was dead until the Lipkin study was complete, so those patents could have been still worth potentially a fortune if the study had turned out differently.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Robyn

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Judy Mikovits was fired a week after announcing at Ottowa that the VIP dx testing should stop.  This was due to the results of the Blood working group results.  Which also did not find XMRV. Then she was jailed. 

And her lawyer said this:

“Dennis Jones, lawyer for Judy Mikovits, also said the reason she was fired by the institute was because she “discovered a series of improper, unethical and possibly illegal acts” by the Whittemores and their lab director.” 

These are the tests that Lombardi had a new revised testing method for,where's the data?: 
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That REDLABS (VIP DX) having been licensed by WPI to sell XMRV tests, failed to clinically validate those tests. 


Now he was finding XMRV in patient samples that they paid $600.00 for. Go figure. And why is he hiding his association to VIP dx after 2007? Those are the questions you should be asking.  And since Silverman was his collaborator and knew he had contamination in summer of 2011 surely he would have informed his collaborator. Yet tests continued to be sold.

If a founder is being indicted for LYING to federal agents what else can be lied about?  Pretty much anything.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 09:39:52 PM by Robyn »

Cytokine

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Judy Mikovits was fired a week after announcing at Ottowa that the VIP dx testing should stop.  This was due to the results of the Blood working group results.  Which also did not find XMRV. Then she was jailed. 

And her lawyer said this:

“Dennis Jones, lawyer for Judy Mikovits, also said the reason she was fired by the institute was because she “discovered a series of improper, unethical and possibly illegal acts” by the Whittemores and their lab director.” 

These are the tests that Lombardi had a new revised testing method for,where's the data?:   

Now he was finding XMRV in patient samples that they paid $600.00 for. Go figure. And why is he hiding his association to VIP dx after 2007? Those are the questions you should be asking.  And since Silverman was his collaborator and knew he had contamination in summer of 2011 surely he would have informed his collaborator. Yet tests continued to be sold.

If a founder is being indicted for LYING to federal agents what else can be lied about?  Pretty much anything.

I'll bow to your superior knowledge on these matters. My main point was that I didn't think the reason the WPI went after Judy so hard was anything to do with the US government. As you say, what Judy said about the VIP dx tests could well have been the main reason.

I hope we're talking about different things when it comes to the blood bank though, and it certainly hasn't been destroyed, particularly after Lipkin highlighted what an important resource it could be.
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Patricia

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It appears to me that Robyn is referring to samples kept at WPI.

Cytokine may be referring to the samples kept by Dr. Lipkin.

http://www.occupycfs.com/2012/09/22/those-lipkin-samples/

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I asked Dr. Susan Maier, chair of the Trans-NIH ME/CFS Working Group and ex officio representative to the CFS Advisory Committee, for additional information. She provided the following clarifications by email on September 21st:


 We are very pleased that Dr. Lipkin has offered to make remaining specimens available to any ME/CFS investigator who successfully competes for NIH funding.   Dr. Lipkin and NIH program staff agreed that the NIH peer review process would offer the fairest means to decide who should have access to these samples.  Consequently, interested investigators will be advised to consider currently available and relevant NIH funding opportunities in order to pursue these samples. NIH will be issuing a notice in the NIH Guide to Grants and Contracts very soon that will elaborate upon these points.  However, it is important to note that there are no set-aside funds associated with these samples.  In addition, Dr. Lipkin’s laboratory will maintain these samples, which is standard NIH protocol.  They will not be stored at NIH.


With regard to the two investigators who have already received samples, Dr. Lipkin was referring to his study collaborators.  This is separate from the process described above. (emphasis added)
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CFSBOSTON

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People should give strong consideration that the reason so many CFSers' tested XMRV+ is because it's a genetic marker.

Robyn

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Yes I read where cytokine wrote this:
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I think the cohort of the study stuck to pretty strict criteria and is good, and the blood samples should turn out to a valuable resource. I like them to be partly used to try and identify a reliable biomarker.

I thought he meant the wpi samples. Maybe he was referring to the Lipkin study samples. Still unsure what became of the original Science paper samples.  The grant samples are being destroyed.


I would think more to do with this then government:
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“Dennis Jones, lawyer for Judy Mikovits, also said the reason she was fired by the institute was because she “discovered a series of improper, unethical and possibly illegal acts” by the Whittemores and their lab director.” 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:24:23 AM by Robyn »