Dr Peterson's guide to diagnosis and testing, lectures in Sweden Oct 6

[Oerganix]

His is a very pragmatic approach to testing, diagnosing and treating symptoms. He doesn't address retroviral causation, neither pro nor con, but says the cause isn't known yet but there is a lot the well-informed physician can do for her/his patients right now. His slides are excellent and IMO could be used to educate physicians and medical students right now.
 
He says that after docs do the elimination tests for anything else it could be, they shouldn't be afraid to diagnose mecfs and he gives supporting reasons from the government's own references plus a lot more.
 
He says there are two tests right now that can give docs the confidence they need to accurately diagnose mecfs: the natural killer cell test and the VO2max test. He says one or the other can prove mecfs. They are easy to do, most insurance pays for them. He gives resources for ordering them.
 
He also cautions docs to advise the lab doing the VO2max testing that they shouldn't approach mecfs patients like they would test athletes. He says the tests have to be age and gender adjusted and that testers should be alert to the fact that the test may have to end after 45 seconds for some patients and there is no need to do a second test for such patients.
 
Bottom line is that there are tests right now that can lead to treatments right now that do not cure but can alleviate some of the suffering.
 
He states right at the beginning that mecfs is neuroimmune disease and he uses the term "disease" throughout. He sometimes lapses and says "chronic fatigue", like many researchers do, but he also uses "me" and "mecfs". At this point in time, I do not have a problem with that. He is dealing with the political reality of the nomenclature.
 
He includes multiple references to things WE already know but physicians generally don't, all of it backed up by peer reviewed research.
 
 Research, testing and treatment of ME/CFS, Dr. Dan Peterson
  Stockholm, October 6, 2011 Introduction: County Council Stig Nyman (In Swedish)

Stig Nyman vid konferens om ME/Kroniskt Trötthetssyndrom

A. Research and Diagnostics:  Lecture A. PDF - http://www.rme.nu/sites/rme.nu/files/foredrag_a_okt_2011_0.pdf Video Capture, Part 1 -

Dr Dan Peterson om forskning på ME/Kroniskt Trötthetssyndrom, DEL 1

Video Capture, Part 2 -

Dr Dan Peterson om forskning på ME/Kronsiskt trötthetssyndrom, DEL 2

B. Sampling and treatment: Lecture B. PDF - http://www.rme.nu/sites/rme.nu/files/foredrag_b_okt_2011_0.pdf Video Capture, Part 3

Dr Dan Peterson om forskning på ME/Kroniskt Trötthetssyndrom DEL 3

C. Research Front and Q: Lectures C. PDF - http://www.rme.nu/sites/rme.nu/files/foredrag_c_okt_2011_0.pdf Video Capture, Part 4

Dr Dan Peterson svarar på frågor vid konferens om ME/CFS, DEL 4

Video recording issues:

Sample seven

[gerwyn]

Dan peterson supplied patients to levi who had already tested negative at the hands of Frank  Ruscetti and Judy Mikovits when screened by the PCR assay that Levi was using

IMO quite deliberate sabotage

[gracenote]

Thanks, Oerganix. A lot of really useful information in these videos and slides. Very clear and easy to understand.

[Jackie]

thanks oerganix...nice to have all this in one place to review.

[Tango]

Dan peterson supplied patients to levi who had already tested negative at the hands of Frank  Ruscetti and Judy Mikovits when screened by the PCR assay that Levi was using

IMO quite deliberate sabotage

That's helpful.  I'm presume Science were told this?

[Oerganix]

Dan peterson supplied patients to levi who had already tested negative at the hands of Frank  Ruscetti and Judy Mikovits when screened by the PCR assay that Levi was using

IMO quite deliberate sabotage

Tested negative for what? Sabotage of what?
 
This thread is about diagnosis and treatment that can be used right now. Physician education. It's not about research into retroviral causation.

[gerwyn]

Tested negative for what? Sabotage of what?
 
This thread is about diagnosis and treatment that can be used right now. Physician education. It's not about research into retroviral causation.

tested negative for HGRV  and relevant because brings petersons intentions and knowledge into question to say the very least

He deliberately sabotaged research into retroviral causation

[Katrina]

Tested negative for what? Sabotage of what?
 
This thread is about diagnosis and treatment that can be used right now. Physician education. It's not about research into retroviral causation.

ditto

[Tango]

Andrea W was diagnosed and sucessfully treated for HGRVs wasn't she.

[B8b_E]

Dr Peterson's work and the CFI is fine for those suffering from Chronic Fatigue and people with Chronic viral infections misdiagnosed with ME.

I say that, as like many others I've got severe ME, and am negative for every virus Peterson has ever mentioned (EBV, CMV etc) as are other people I've talked to who have severe ME.
So for me, the cause is a retrovirus especially as I tested positive for one and have the inflammation marker Lombardi found in 93% of people with 'XMRV' which was actually an HGRV.

If you had an underlying immune disease and 'treated' an infection, it would only resurface later anyway, thus making one's 'CFS' untreatable wih Peterson's treatment protocol.
[If one 'recovered' on antivirals, then one would have had a chronic viral infection, which is an exclusionary criteria for CFS and also ME].
The diagnostic criteria for 'CFS' is that the cause must be unknown, and not cause by any known pathogen.   

NB: HHV-6/CMV/EBV/Parvovirus are all known to cause chronic fatigue, and thus cannot be associated to CFS. ME is a unique disease state, not a chronic known viral infection.

Dr Peterson doesn't tell people this though, which is wrong as he is not being honest to the other people with 'CFS' who don't have these sky high HHV-6 titres etc.
They won't recover on his protocol, same goes for people with HGRV infections.

He has found himself a subset of fatigued patients, who are clearly riddled with infections because they respond to treatment.By definition, they cannot have CFS though or ME because the cause is known - an infection (s) known to cause chronic fatigue the treatable with antiviral medications. All he's doing is hoovering up misdiagnosed Americans (who have a label of CFS) and presenting himself as a ground-breaking 'CFS' doctor which is not the case.

No one can 'treat' CFS as it doesn't exist.  You can only treat a pathogen making you sick. If you do this, then the cause is known and you don't have CFS, you have an infection.
Which means it's misleading the public into believing there is 'ground breaking' treatment for CFS as there isn't. 

[gerwyn]

Dr Peterson's work and the CFI is fine for those suffering from Chronic Fatigue and people with Chronic viral infections misdiagnosed with ME.

I say that, as like many others I've got severe ME, and am negative for every virus Peterson has ever mentioned (EBV, CMV etc) as are other people I've talked to who have severe ME.
So for me, the cause is a retrovirus especially as I tested positive for one and have the inflammation marker Lombardi found in 93% of people with 'XMRV' which was actually an HGRV.

If you had an underlying immune disease and 'treated' an infection, it would only resurface later anyway, thus making one's 'CFS' untreatable wih Peterson's treatment protocol.
[If one 'recovered' on antivirals, then one would have had a chronic viral infection, which is an exclusionary criteria for CFS and also ME].
The diagnostic criteria for 'CFS' is that the cause must be unknown, and not cause by any known pathogen.   

NB: HHV-6/CMV/EBV/Parvovirus are all known to cause chronic fatigue, and thus cannot be associated to CFS. ME is a unique disease state, not a chronic known viral infection.

Dr Peterson doesn't tell people this though, which is wrong as he is not being honest to the other people with 'CFS' who don't have these sky high HHV-6 titres etc.
They won't recover on his protocol, same goes for people with HGRV infections.

He has found himself a subset of fatigued patients, who are clearly riddled with infections because they respond to treatment.By definition, they cannot have CFS though or ME because the cause is known - an infection (s) known to cause chronic fatigue the treatable with antiviral medications. All he's doing is hoovering up misdiagnosed Americans (who have a label of CFS) and presenting himself as a ground-breaking 'CFS' doctor which is not the case.

No one can 'treat' CFS as it doesn't exist.  You can only treat a pathogen making you sick. If you do this, then the cause is known and you don't have CFS, you have an infection.
Which means it's misleading the public into believing there is 'ground breaking' treatment for CFS as there isn't.

yes totally correct

NB: HHV-6/CMV/EBV/Parvovirus are all known to cause chronic fatigue, and thus cannot be associated to CFS. ME is a unique disease state, not a chronic known viral infection.

yes quite those viruses can cause chronic fatigue they have no more to do with ME than they do with MS


HHV-6 & Multiple Sclerosis | HHV-6 Foundation
www.hhv-6foundation.org/associated.../hhv-6-and-multiple-sclerosis
There is growing evidence that HHV-6A plays a role in MS, either directly or indirectly, as an activator of viruses such as EBV or an endogenous retrovirus such ...

The HHV-6 foundation and their grantees certainly get around

[Oerganix]

Obviously you both have your minds so made up that you haven't bothered to actually watch any of the videos.
 
He doesn't say he has a treatment protocol for everyone. He doesn't say he can cure anyone. He makes it very clear he is only treating disabling symptoms.
 
There is nothing dishonest in this lecture. He says that it is a neuroimmune disease and it isn't yet clear whether some other pathogen causes the immune dysregulation or the immune dysregulation causes the symptoms. You two obviously think that that is a closed subject. I don't think even Dr M would be that closed minded on the subject. She herself is still trying to answer that question in her own mind.
 
I've heard both of your opinions on this so many times that I don't find another repeat of them at all helpful. I respect you both and respect your point of view, but reasonable people may come to a different conclusion than you have. The evidence is not in yet, IMO, to have such inflexible ideas.
 
If you haven't seen the videos and don't know what's in them, would it be too much to just ignore this thread?

[gerwyn]

Obviously you both have your minds so made up that you haven't bothered to actually watch any of the videos.
 
He doesn't say he has a treatment protocol for everyone. He doesn't say he can cure anyone. He makes it very clear he is only treating disabling symptoms.
 
There is nothing dishonest in this lecture. He says that it is a neuroimmune disease and it isn't yet clear whether some other pathogen causes the immune dysregulation or the immune dysregulation causes the symptoms. You two obviously think that that is a closed subject. I don't think even Dr M would be that closed minded on the subject. She herself is still trying to answer that question in her own mind.
 
I've heard both of your opinions on this so many times that I don't find another repeat of them at all helpful. I respect you both and respect your point of view, but reasonable people may come to a different conclusion than you have. The evidence is not in yet, IMO, to have such inflexible ideas.
 
If you haven't seen the videos and don't know what's in them, would it be too much to just ignore this thread?

I know that peterson supplied patients to the levi study knowing that they had already tested negative by the assay that he knew levi was going to use

there is absolutely no scientific evidence that herpes viruses can account for the symptom spectrum of ME or cause the cytokine profile demonstrated in ME patients by Dr Mikovits.In fact herpes viruses cannot cause that profile

I dont think you would find that Dr Peterson is on Dr Mikovit,s christmas card list and he has been running interference against hgrv causation for quite a while.Reading his article in the LA times would be informative

I am not ignoring the thread because I believe that patients are entitled to accurate  balanced information and anything coming from Dr Peterson is likely to be anything but

[B8b_E]

Hi Oerganix

You say:

There is nothing dishonest in this lecture.

Here in my understanding of what I saw, you are possibly wrong.

Dr Peterson appears to refer to the Lombardi Cytokine/Chemokine inflammatory profile paper and apparently took the reference to a retrovirus out as well as the reference of who did the paper.]
(Video 3: 12.26 elapsed).

Now I could be wrong.  There may be twoCytokine/Chemokine papers in CFS knocking around, both with 94% accuracy (Of Chemokines and Cytokines) in CFS and also XMRV+ CFS.
Is this the case? Is it? I've never heard of this. Maybe I missed it. A strange coincidene if so as the figures are indentical, one with a retrovirus and one without. 

If not....

He mislead the audience in my view, and said ''And here's an analysis that says you can diagnose Chronic Fatigue Syndrome with just 5 cytokines''.

If he is refereing to Lombardi et al 2011. (We don't know, as his slide is not labelled!!) the authors never said that. in their paper.
So if this is the case, he was dishonest, in my opinion.

The authors in Lombardi et al 2011 are actually are saying people with a retroviral infection ('XMRV') who had CFS, had 94% finding of these cytokines and chemokines.
The Lombardi et al 2011, paper wasn't about CFS, it wasn't about diagnosing CFS,  it was about inflammation and XMRV! (And if you understand the markers, risk for Cancer).
This is the whole point of the Lombardi et al, 2011 paper*.

*Xenotropic Murine Leukemia Virus-related Virus-associated Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Reveals a Distinct Inflammatory Signature.
VINCENT C. LOMBARDI, KATHRYN S. HAGEN, KENNETH W. HUNTER, JOHN W. DIAMOND, JULIE SMITH-GAGEN, WEI YANG and JUDY A. MIKOVITS
in vivo 25: 307-314 (2011)

Yet Dr Peterson says about a side he has that looks remarkably like the results of Lombardi et al 2011's XMRV+ CFS paper
''And here's an analysis that says you can diagnoses Chronic Fatigue Syndrome with just 5 cytokines'.

Even if there are two published papers, the fact Dr Peterson's slide looks almost a copy of Lombardi et al 2011 (CFS who were infected with an HGRV) should be cause for alarm for people like Dr Peterson who believes the WPI's XMRV is a contaminant and is part of the 'Chronic Fatigue Initiative'!

I wonder if anyone can explain this?

[JT1024]

Thanks for posting these videos...

I've only been able to get through 1/2 of the second Peterson video and will not comment until I've finished viewing the videos. I also won't comment on something I don't know about! Heck.. I may not even comment beyond a thank you.

I'm just thankful that this forum exists and that we can call share information. We will all have to come to our own determination of what is true, what is political crap, and what is right for our own situation.

Patients desperately want to regain their lives while others have other motives (money, international recognition (Nobel), diminishing risk (insurance companies, governments), grant money etc.